103: How to Double Your Downloads with Strategic Podcast Guesting with Kelly Mosser
You’ve heard me say on this show before that podcast guesting is a powerful way to boost your authority and get more listeners for your podcast. Today, my guest, Kelly Mosser, shares how podcasting guesting can help you double your podcast downloads by being really strategic with doing a three-month podcast guesting tour.
Kelly and I chat about so many topics in this value-packed episode, including info that you haven’t heard before on this show.
Why it is essential to figure out your value proposition as a podcast guest
How to effectively use calls-to-action when you’re a podcast guest
How to create a hospitality experience for new followers/listeners
Value-centered ways to approach podcast hosts about being on their show
The 3 things every podcast host wants for their show
How to pick the best topic to pitch and speak on
Setting up your podcast guesting workflow for maximum success
How to position yourself as an essential guest for the shows you’re reaching out to
We also discuss:
Why we as women entrepreneurs need to be totally explicit with ourselves and other people about what we want for our businesses
Why we need to be absolutely direct about wanting more money
Kelly is a business strategist, top 1% business-podcast host, and podcast guesting expert. She’s on a mission to help big-hearted entrepreneurs spread their messages and create a huge impact and explode their visibility through podcast guesting. Kelly is the host of the global top 2% podcast, the Aligned Success Show.
Connect with Kelly Mosser
DM the word KELLY (that’s me, Kelly Smith!) to Kelly Mosser in Instagram to get started in her Hell Yes Guest program for free!
Transcript
[00:00:00]
[00:00:10] KS: Welcome back to Podcast Launchpad. I'm Kelly. I've talked on the show before about how Podcast Guesting is such a powerful way to promote your own podcast. Today I'm chatting with my guest, Kelly Mosser, specifically about how podcast guesting can help you double your downloads. Isn't that awesome? Kelly is a business strategist, top 1% business podcast host, and podcast guesting expert.
[00:00:36] She's on a mission to help big-hearted entrepreneurs spread their message and create a huge impact and explode their visibility through podcast guesting. Kelly's podcast is called The Aligned Success Show. Welcome, Kelly. I'm so happy you're here today.
[00:00:52] Kelly M: Thank you so much for having me. I am so excited to be here.
[00:00:55] KS: Oh, absolutely. I love this topic. I [00:01:00] think we could have an entire podcast on podcast guesting.
[00:01:04] Kelly M: We definitely could.
[00:01:06] KS: Because there are just so many things to do and so many things people get wrong. I love being a guest on other people's podcasts. It has helped increase my downloads. I've sold more books. I've gotten new clients. So, can you share why podcast guesting is such a powerful way to grow your podcast?
[00:01:26] Kelly M: Oh my goodness. I, I think there are so many incredible benefits to podcast guesting. If you are an entrepreneur who has a podcast or if you are a podcaster, and that is the way that you make your money as an entrepreneur, no matter which angle you are approaching this conversation from, podcast guesting is going to serve you.
[00:01:45] Let's talk about from the perspective of growing your downloads. There's one thing we know about all podcast guests, all podcast listeners, and it's that they listen to podcasts. So that is just right off the bat, such an incredible way to [00:02:00] build a foundation of trust with the people who are listening to you on another podcast, because a lot of people, and I've done this too, and I still do this, but I think a lot of people think, okay, I'm gonna grow my podcast.
[00:02:11] I'm gonna get out there on social media and YouTube and LinkedIn and Instagram. While that can be a really powerful way to raise awareness for your podcast, you are inevitably reaching some people, some of those people that you're reaching aren't podcast listeners. And there's no way to weed those people out unless you are exclusively talking to those people on other podcasts.
[00:02:31] So I think right away, that's one incredible benefit. There's so many other incredible benefits to podcast guesting. The quality of attention that you, oh, sorry. Go
[00:02:41] KS: Can I jump in real quick about yeah that thing about being on another podcast and they're automatically podcast listeners. Podcast guests, I mean hosts, they're essentially endorsing you by having you on their show. And a lot of [00:03:00] listeners find other podcasts through podcasts that they're currently listening to.
[00:03:04] Isn't that right?
[00:03:05] Kelly M: Exactly. Exactly. It's such a difference. A lot of people, you know, say, well, why wouldn't I just run, you know, some Facebook ads or run some Instagram ads? That's there's a big difference. I mean, fundamentally the kind of media that you're talking about is different. So paid acquisition, paid media versus
[00:03:22] earned media. Podcast guesting is earned media. It's also not media that you have to initiate and produce yourself. So by leveraging a platform that's already built, you get the added benefit of that entire audience that has already been built for you and curated intentionally. So it's it, there's just so many,
[00:03:43] I mean, it's really endless, but when you think about working smarter, not harder, that's something that we all talk about and hopefully are all thinking about prioritizing. There's no better way to do that by leveraging audiences that are already built, that are super niche, that are already highly engaged, and to your point, that trust the host [00:04:00] already. They already have a relationship with that host.
[00:04:02] It's the same as like when you're at a bar and somebody comes up to you and they start talking to you and you're like, who is this person? I've never heard of you before. But then your friend comes up and says, oh, I'm so glad you met my cousin, Catherine. You're like, oh, okay. Right away you have an instantly deeper connection with that person because they're being referred to you by someone that you trust.
[00:04:19] KS: True. Yeah. It's, it, I love that part of it that, that the host has built that know, like, trust factor, and when, so then the listeners are going to be more prone to doing what the host asks them to do, whether it's their own call to action or a call to action of, Hey, go listen to my guest's podcast. You know, so.
[00:04:44] Kelly M: Absolutely. It's an added benefit of that host putting in the time, effort, energy, and work. It's like when you go to buy anything, anything, something from the grocery store, something from a clothing company that you've never tried before, [00:05:00] that person has already established proof of concept. They've already established a high quality product that you then just get to benefit from rather than having to prove yourself to a brand new cold audience that you have something valuable to offer.
[00:05:12] They already know that whoever that host brings on is going to offer something valuable if they trust them.
[00:05:17] KS: True. That's great. All right, so when I jumped in, you were about to, uh, go into using podcast guesting specifically to increase downloads.
[00:05:27] Kelly M: Yes. So if you are thinking about what is the ultimate end goal that you have when you are guesting on a podcast or doing any sort of guest speaking opportunity, whether it's in somebody's membership or mastermind, you wanna be thinking about what is the end goal that I have for this person that I'm able to connect with right now?
[00:05:48] Because someone has given me this opportunity, right? I've earned this opportunity by creating, demonstrating that I'm going to bring some value to this audience. What is that end goal that I want this person in front of me to [00:06:00] hopefully come into some sort of relationship with me, whether it's listening to my free content on my podcast or signing up for my email list.
[00:06:07] If you are an entrepreneur who has a, you know, a, a, a business built out where you offer products and services, thinking about what is that ultimate end goal that I want this person to come into after they listen to this interview with me for 30 to sometimes 60 minutes. That's a lot of time that you have to build a relationship with someone.
[00:06:27] So what is that next step that I'm hoping this person is gonna wanna take? And then if you think about, okay, what is the content that that person needs to hear before they feel ready to take whatever action that next step is that I'm gonna offer them. So I think one thing that I see a lot of people do that I think is a mistake, and I've seen the opposite work really, really well, what I see a lot of people do that is a mistake is trying to be everywhere, talking about everything.
[00:06:54] It's great to be everywhere, but I want you to really think about what is the most potent, the most [00:07:00] profitable content that converts the best that I can bring around with me, almost like a traveling masterclass. If you think about the tour model, a podcast tour should very closely mimic a press tour for that an actor does before you know, they launch a movie or a book tour that an author does when they're trying to sell copies of their new book.
[00:07:18] The same idea is that consistency, repetition, mastery, getting around with one message and getting really well known for saying one thing over and over. That's how you build your brand and ultimately build up the reputation that you want people to associate you with when they think about your podcast, when they think about your YouTube content, when they think about your brand and your products and services.
[00:07:40] What is that core feeling? What is that core message that you want people to associate you with? That's what you should be bringing around with you as a podcast guest because that's what really builds interest, builds buzz around your podcast. Um, so thinking about it in that way of being really intentional with not just where you go, but also what you're [00:08:00] saying when you go to those places.
[00:08:01] KS: Hmm. I love that. All right, so being intentional about having that one message that is really boosting your personal brand as well as well, isn't it, which then of course boosts your podcast and helps you promote your podcast.
[00:08:16] Kelly M: Absolutely. It's all about what do I want people to think of me? What do I want them to, what's that one word that I want them to hear and instantly associate me with? It's really about brand building. It's really about messaging, and it's about creating a relationship through story and through value.
[00:08:32] That's the most important thing. I think a lot of people, you know, a book tour is a little bit different from a podcast tour. With a book tour, the intention is clearly to sell books. People want to interview you about your book. People want to interview you as a podcast host about value, because ultimately people wanna bring value to their audiences.
[00:08:52] So just having a podcast isn't the, isn't the value proposition, right? So what is the message that is the value proposition that [00:09:00] ties so clearly in with what you share about on your podcast, because that's what's going to make people say, oh, there's something of value for me if I do take this next step and go listen to this person's podcast, wherever they, you know, actually go into their world now.
[00:09:13] So no longer just experiencing them through the trusted relationship I have with this host, but something about this person and their message is compelling enough for me to want more of what they're saying. So really understanding what your value proposition is and knowing that it's wonderful that you have a podcast, but that's not enough
[00:09:31] for you to bring people in to actually listen to that podcast. They've gotta understand exactly what they're going to receive if they become a listener of your show.
[00:09:38] KS: Oh, absolutely. That's excellent. So I'm gonna jump ahead for a minute here. I, I have other questions to ask, but when you were talking about, figuring out and being very strategic about where you want to send listeners after the interview, how many links do you recommend [00:10:00] giving the host to put in the show notes?
[00:10:03] You know, like you, you have your main CTA of course, but then I have guests who also give me, all of their social media links and, you know, so multiple links and I'm, I'm curious about what you have to say about that, because I think that runs the risk of confusing the listeners. And then from a technical perspective, if they go to the li, the host's website to check out the show notes, if the host didn't set it up so that the links open in a new window.
[00:10:40] And you click on the listener clicks on like, let's say Instagram, they're now in Instagram in that window, and you've kind of lost them. They're not gonna go back most likely to then click on your main call to action or your website. What do you think about that?
[00:10:57] Kelly M: Yeah, so I think let's talk about the [00:11:00] call to action in sort of two components. So we'll talk about the call to action that you can actually speak at the end of an episode, and then we'll talk about the call to action that you can have a little bit more fleshed out maybe in the show notes. But, at the end of most podcast interviews that you do, the host will say something like, where can we learn more about you and what you do, or where can we engage with your content further?
[00:11:22] I always recommend giving one super high value, super memorable, and absolutely irresistible invitation during this time, because if you think about a podcast listening experience, most people who are listening to a podcast are doing something else while they're listening. So they're not sitting there staring at their phones with their fingers, their thumbs ready to click on a link the same way that they are when they're scrolling through Instagram.
[00:11:46] So you wanna make sure that the, the test that I like to offer people is, would someone consider pulling over to take this call to action right now? Is it that valuable? Is there, is the value proposition that good that someone who's dropping their kids off at school right now [00:12:00] might actually consider, okay, if I'm on my way home, maybe I'll actually pull over right now because this call to action that this person just gave me, was that good?
[00:12:06] Because as soon as that episode ends, it's gonna move on to the next one. Sometimes it's really hard to go back and find the episode that you were listening to.
[00:12:13] KS: It disappears from your list right there.
[00:12:16] Kelly M: Especially if it's, if it's not a podcast that's in your regular weekly repertoire, if it's something new that you've just discovered, you really genuinely ni, might not be able to find it again.
[00:12:26] So is the call to action that you're offering valuable enough that someone would consider pulling over? Or if they can't pull over right now, is it memorable enough that they're gonna wanna go back to it later when they have the use of their hands and their eyes again? Because right now they're grocery shopping or cleaning or driving, or whatever it is.
[00:12:43] So I like to recommend that at the end of that interview when you are going to give your call to action, you wanna make it a super high value next step so that someone who's just listened to you talk for 30 minutes. Is going to say, oh, what, what is the next step that this person can offer me? So really thinking about not a side step, [00:13:00] not a step backwards.
[00:13:00] Cuz you covered a lot probably during this episode. So what is the next step? So offer something super high value and then you can say, and if you're not ready for that just yet, Here's the second place that I want you to go. And the second place that you want them to go should be much lower risk, right?
[00:13:16] So not that it's super high risk to join your email list, but something even lower risk. So you offer them that super high value. Next step, invitation first, and then say, and if you're not ready for that, check out my website. It'll be here for you in the show notes. Now let's talk about the show notes and what goes on in the show notes.
[00:13:32] I like to recommend two, two links max. Because I think to your point, decision overwhelm is real. And if you only offer, you know, if you offer people 10 social media handles, they're gonna get overwhelmed and probably navigate away. But if you only offer them one social media handle and they happen to not be a user of that platform, then you lose them too.
[00:13:54] So I like to really offer people, send them to a landing page where they can find that super high value next [00:14:00] step that you're off, that you're inviting them to. Don't just send people to your website and hope that they convert because they probably won't, cuz the same thing's gonna happen. They're gonna get to your website and be super overwhelmed.
[00:14:10] So offer them that super high value specific call to action. That's, you know, not just a checklist. We're, we're not talking, just download this checklist of 10 things we're talking about. Here's a three part mini course on this exact topic that's gonna help you understand X, Y, and Z, which is the next step after you listen to this episode.
[00:14:30] KS: Mm.
[00:14:31] Kelly M: And then you can say, and if you're not ready for that, send me a message on, you know, this platform or this platform. Keep it specific, keep it succinct, or head to my website and fill out, you know, the form in my website, but make that the secondary call to action so that the people who are like, this was life changing.
[00:14:48] I cannot wait to take the next step. Make sure that there's somewhere for those people to go. But keep it simple in the show notes. Send people to your. Landing page where that super high value next step is gonna be. And then send them to your [00:15:00] website and that's fine. Cuz on your website they can find your Instagram or whatever it is.
[00:15:04] But I would not overwhelm people with too many links. I think that's a, a really big problem that a lot of us are doing.
[00:15:09] KS: Yeah, absolutely. I love that suggestion of having a specific landing page for the topic that you're talking about that has a freebie that's really high value. Absolutely love that, that that would be very, very effective. All right. Mm-hmm.
[00:15:26] Kelly M: And if you are sending people to your podcast, I really, really recommend sending them somewhere specific on your podcast. So if you love this episode, you are going to love episode 65 of my podcast, because we talk about X, Y, and Z. It's the next step for them, right? It's not just go to my podcast.
[00:15:44] They're gonna get overwhelmed when they get there. Tell them exactly where you want them to go or where you think they would get the most benefit. Or if there's a few episodes that are a little bit further spread out. Bundle those, put them on one page, ask for someone's email address in return, [00:16:00] and say, I'm gonna send you not just these three episodes, but a workbook that goes along with th these three episodes or a super, you know, a, a high value training on these episodes.
[00:16:10] That goes one step deeper. So thinking about delivering people with a lot of intention, if you have ever been to like a hotel or something, and you ask for, you know, where's, where's the pool? And someone says, oh, it's that way.
[00:16:21] KS: Right.
[00:16:22] Kelly M: Maybe you find the pool, maybe you don't. But if they say, oh, Kelly, I'll take you to the pool.
[00:16:26] They walk you down the hallway, they say, here are the towels. Here's the locker room. You feel so much more taken care of, so how can you create, recreate an experience like that that really feels like a hospitality experience for people who are brand new to you?
[00:16:39] KS: Mm. Oh my gosh. I absolutely love that. And I haven't heard anyone talk about doing that before, so thank you so much for sharing that. That is excellent.
[00:16:49] Kelly M: Of course.
[00:16:50] KS: All right, so let's back up now to approaching podcast hosts about being a guest on their show. You know this is a pet peeve of mine. Y'all [00:17:00] listeners know that too, because as a host, most pitches that I get are mediocre at best and really bad from some people, including from agencies.
[00:17:13] Like they get my name wrong. They don't mention the name of my show, and I have three shows. One that's, i, I finished now, but it's still there. And this one on one that I co-host, and then lots of people don't even give me a link to their website so I can check them out more. And there's so many other things, but I wanna hear from you.
[00:17:34] So what are some common mistakes you see people making when approaching a show to be on?
[00:17:40] Kelly M: I think the number one thing is the wrong attitude, the wrong mindset approach. When you're approaching someone to be a guest on their show, they don't owe you anything you, they owe you nothing. You are reaching out to them. You should be reaching out to them with the hope of bringing value to their show and making [00:18:00] their lives easier.
[00:18:01] So I think there is a little bit of a sense of entitlement that comes across sometimes. And we wanna get rid of that. If you are approaching a podcast, it should be a joint venture. You should essentially be pitching them for a business collaboration, which is what this is. So you wanna be thinking about putting yourself in that host's shoes, trying to put on their mindset for a moment, and ask yourself, what does this person want?
[00:18:24] Podcast hosts mostly want three things, so I'll tell you what those are so you don't have to do the guesswork. They want high quality content. The best content for their audience is always gonna be a good podcast host's number one priority. The second thing podcast hosts want is more listeners for their show.
[00:18:38] They want to be able to grow their show and expand their reach and expand their impact. Most people are leaving that outta the equation when they're pitching, but that really should be something that is at the forefront of your pitch, is how you're gonna help the show grow. And I will tell you how to do that in just a moment.
[00:18:54] So even if you're like, I don't have a, I don't know how to help a, a show grow, I will tell you exactly how to do that. [00:19:00] And the third thing most podcast hosts want is for their podcast to be bringing more, funneling, more revenue into their business or growing another channel, right? So thinking about not the podcast as just an an ends in itself, but also a means to another end.
[00:19:15] So if you can position yourself as someone who is going to bring the highest quality content, someone who is going to help this podcast grow, and help the host achieve their goals, and someone who can help this podcast generate more revenue for whatever business is attached to, you are going to, it's gonna be hard for you to not get booked if you can position yourself as someone who does those things.
[00:19:37] So that's, I'm kind of a macro level, what I think most people are doing wrong. That's an easy fix.
[00:19:42] KS: That's great. And I so agree with that, that so many lists, uh, get potential guests reach out and won't give a specific topic to talk to, talk on, you know, like one thing with even a potential title. You know, I mean, I'll [00:20:00] I switch around the title, but give me a specific topic. Give me some bullet points.
[00:20:05] Tell me exactly how this is going to be of value for my listeners, how we'll be co-creating that value and yeah. As far as mentioning, I will share this on my social media to my email list, whatever. I've had almost no one do that. It's, it's been so few who say that, who say that, you know, they'll share afterwards.
[00:20:27] Not everyone shares, but you know, as far as telling me ahead of time, oh my God, that's amazing when they do that.
[00:20:35] Kelly M: Absolutely. So I, I would say that 99.9% of people don't do that. So even if you are, even if all you can offer is, I'm gonna make sure that everyone at my Uncle Larry's birthday party next weekend listens to this podcast episode, that's more than most people are doing. So right away your intention is obvious.
[00:20:53] Your, you know, your, your, the spirit of generosity is there and the host is gonna be able to recognize that and really appreciate it. And [00:21:00] to your point, most people think have this mindset that if I offer, the more options I offer, the better my chances are of getting booked when it's actually the exact opposite.
[00:21:10] A host already has so much going on. They're behind on their production schedule. Their, you know, their guests, just their last guest just canceled, or somebody ghosted them. You have to do their work for them, essentially. We ask the host, you wanna be asking the host for as little labor as possible. You really want the only decision that they have to make to be yes or no, not A, B, C, or D.
[00:21:32] Here are the four topics I can talk about. Now you, I want you to create, you know, the podcast episode and the exact angle of our talk. That's all on the guest. It's all on the guest. Because also what happens when you pitch five or six or seven potential topics and ideas, that just tells the host that I, the host says, I don't really think this person knows what they're an expert in, and I don't want someone who's kind of sort of an expert in seven things to come [00:22:00] and bring value to my audience.
[00:22:01] You gotta get clear on that one thing that is your most, the biggest value that you can add, that's also the best converting content for you. So I think there's, there's just so much that's, there's such an opportunity here for people to be more specific, get super clear, do the host's job for them, look at their naming conventions of their other episodes.
[00:22:20] Do a little bit of extra legwork. It's gonna go a long way cuz the host is gonna look at your pitch and go, this person is in my brain. I have so little to do now. I just get to show up to this interview and have a good time. There's minimal prep work. I'm ready. That's what you wanna be able to do for the host.
[00:22:36] KS: Oh my gosh, yes. That, you did that. And as far as other people doing it, it is so rare. You know, I come up with the questions and all of that, and that's great. You know, I definitely research my guests and the topic ahead of time if I'm not already totally familiar with the topic. [00:23:00] But, as far as like for some guests, I do too much work than I should have to, you know, like picking out the topic for them.
[00:23:10] And at that point you're right, I just will either say no or can you, if, if the guest sounds really interesting, I'll reply and say, can you give me one specific topic to talk about with takeaways? Yep.
[00:23:24] And hopefully they do that.
[00:23:25] Kelly M: and I think, you know, so few people recognize that. Hosts, we ha we are not like these invincible creatures with teams of a hundred people. We're just oftentimes one, one person or two people. If you can do a a, the brunt of the work that goes into putting on a show and producing a podcast episode for us, that's gonna be an automatic, you're gonna at least get moved to the top of the, to the top of the pile as far as pitches go.
[00:23:53] So, yeah, that's super important.
[00:23:55] KS: Absolutely. And for the guest. So yes, it [00:24:00] takes work ahead of time to do that for the host, but like you said, if you were speaking on one topic, then you're not doing this every time you pitch a host. You are personalizing how you reach out to them, but you are not recreating all of that information every single time. You're doing it once and then personalizing how you reach out.
[00:24:26] Kelly M: Exactly. The, the work that you do ahead of time, ideally, so you sh you can think about your sort of podcast guesting workflow in this way. First thing you're gonna do is set up your podcast tour, essentially. So what is the ultimate goal that you want to be creating and achieving with this podcast tour? Then what is that call to action?
[00:24:46] Then what is that signature content that you're gonna get out there and pitch? And then you're gonna build your list of shows that you think you would be a fantastic fit for, and that would be a mutual bene mutually beneficial fit for you too. Then, so once that's [00:25:00] done, you don't have to touch that again.
[00:25:01] You will tweak it to your point, but that's, the strategy that you are following for this tour. And I recommend people doing tours in like three month stretches. So this is your tour for the next three months or until whatever goal you are working on has moved on and there's a new goal. Then you can start the process over again when you have a new goal or a new topic that you wanna get out there with.
[00:25:24] But then, when you are actually in the pitching process, you wanna be going through and saying, okay, what is going to make this strategy that I've already built out a no-brainer for this specific podcast. So who is this podcast's exact exact listener, not just broad general, I see you just talk to women on your podcast.
[00:25:43] No, I see you talk to moms who are over 35 who are dealing with these three specific challenges, and you can massage and reposition that signature content in a way that's really gonna serve that audience. But Exactly. You wanna be, I, absolutely [00:26:00] tailoring each pitch to the podcast and then delivering,
[00:26:03] only do it if you can actually deliver on content for that exact audience. But the bulk of that work is already done, and now you just get to say, okay, I see that this audience is really specifically women between the ages of 35 and 45 who are recently divorced. How can I tweak my signature content to make sure it's as valuable, valuable as possible for that specific population?
[00:26:24] So it the, the work is really done upfront, and then you just optimize with every pitch that you send.
[00:26:31] KS: Absolutely. That's great. So how many podcast guest appearances do you recommend people make during a three month tour?
[00:26:41] Kelly M: Hmm. So I
[00:26:42] KS: be ideal?
[00:26:43] Kelly M: Yeah, absolutely. I think a really solid tour is anywhere between 12 and 20 episodes. I think That's great. Um, I think 10 is, is a decent start too. So let's say between 10 and 20 would be a super solid podcast tour.
[00:26:58] KS: Awesome. All [00:27:00] right. And as far as picking what podcasts to be on, so one thing, like when you're investigating who their ideal listener is or who, who their actual listener is, you know, sometimes you can actually get that from the podcast description or on their website. You know, they, the host may state very specifically who their listener is.
[00:27:21] And as an entrepreneur being a guest on podcasts, you should also be making sure that their ideal listener overlaps with your ideal client. Isn't that right?
[00:27:33] Kelly M: Absolutely. I see a lot of people think, okay, you know, I want to be in front of entrepreneurs, and that's as drilled down as they'll get and they'll end up on podcasts for real estate professionals, and I'm like, are you, do you have something that is actually going to add value to a real estate professional's life beyond the scope of that podcast interview?
[00:27:55] And if the answer is no, then that's not a podcast that you wanna be on. So I think a lot of [00:28:00] people can see, okay, I could deliver a great episode to this particular population of people, but do your products and services actually serve that person? Because if not, it's kind of like this half baked
[00:28:13] relationship on both sides because they're gonna want more from you and you of course want to get the most out of any audience that you connect with. And if that next step isn't there for them, then it's not gonna be a good audience for you to connect with, even if you could, sure, there's probably tons of audiences that would benefit from hearing your signature content, but if that end listener, if that audience isn't actually your ideal client, then it's probably not gonna be a good use of their time or of your time.
[00:28:38] KS: Right. Yeah. It's just like picking your ideal client for your business or picking your niche for your business. I know people resist doing that, but you can't be all things to all people. You know? If you try to appeal to everyone, you're going to appeal to no one. And so that same with podcast guesting, isn't it?
[00:28:57] Kelly M: Absolutely, and I think there is a [00:29:00] mindset that there aren't that many podcasts out there or we have a very narrow, a perspective of just how many there are. There are millions, there are millions of podcasts, and there are certainly thousands that are going to have your exact ideal listener listening to them.
[00:29:15] So don't, you know, say, oh, well I, this one invited me on, or I just found this one, so maybe I'll just go for it. No, be really discerning about the audiences that you connect with because you gotta respect your own time as an entrepreneur, but you also should respect the audience's time and the host's time.
[00:29:30] Ideally, a great podcast partnership is gonna benefit all three of those parties. Um, so there are lots of places to find those podcasts. The first great thing would be to, the first great thing to do would be to ask your listeners or ask your clients or your students or your audience on Instagram what podcasts they listen to. That's the first
[00:29:52] KS: That's great. Love that. Love it.
[00:29:55] Kelly M: Another you can do is read through the [00:30:00] reviews of a show when you find it and see what is the audience calling out as the things that they love the most about this show. And are those things that I think really align with my values and the value that I can contribute to this show.
[00:30:11] And if it's not, you know, if everybody in the content or, or everybody in the comments is saying, I love that. The, my favorite thing about this show is that it's practical advice for real estate professionals, and if you're not a real estate professional, move on from that show. There's tons of context clues.
[00:30:26] First thing to do, just ask your audience what they listen to.
[00:30:28] KS: Yeah, that's great. Uh, okay, so let's get into what specific things podcasters can do that will help podcast guesting double their downloads on their own podcast.
[00:30:42] Kelly M: Yes. So I think the first thing is to get really clear about that value add. So what is the, think about your show as an asset. So if someone engages with the asset that is your show and all of the value that you provide on your show, what are the problems that those people are really [00:31:00] trying to solve?
[00:31:00] What are the things that they really, really want and how can you start conversations and get, get out there on the guesting circuit, starting a conversation that is going to naturally lead people to your show as a solution for the problems that they have and that the desires that they have as well? So I think really getting clear on what you bring to the table in terms of the value that you add.
[00:31:23] Also getting super clear on what you bring to the table in terms of who you bring with you. So we talked about this earlier. When you're pitching, who you bring to the table is just as important as what you bring to the table. So if you really look at the places, the assets that you have that you can leverage to make yourself a more compelling guest for a show.
[00:31:43] And what I mean by this is think about, look at all your platforms, look at your podcast audience, look at your Instagram following, look at your email list, and really get clear on how many people you're connecting with on a regular basis. Those are all people that could potentially turn into listeners of the shows that you're pitching.[00:32:00]
[00:32:00] And if you are the person that can bring those audiences to that show, you're gonna have so much leverage. The other thing to think about is if you don't have huge platforms that you own, or communities that you've built, what are the communities that you are a part of? Because you don't have to own a community in order to bring that community with you to a podcast.
[00:32:20] So if you're part of a mastermind of 20 incredible people who are X, Y, and Z, or if you're part of a membership that's got a thousand people in it and you're all supporting each other and engaging with one another's content, that's a community that you're deeply, deeply connected with. That's leverage for you too.
[00:32:39] So I think really thinking about, okay, I'm someone who wants to bring people to my show. I have to position myself as someone who can bring people to this podcast that I wanna be on. So really removing yourself from the center of the narrative, putting the host at the center of the narrative, the show at the center of the narrative and the audience of that show at the center of the narrative.
[00:32:59] If [00:33:00] that's all you did and you went out into your network and you led with generosity and you said, this is how I can, you know, contribute to your show and this is how I'm gonna promote your show. And even if you wanna be extra fancy, you can invite them onto your show too. You can reciprocate, you can offer some sort of reciprocity invitation.
[00:33:20] If that's all you did, you would start generating more, generating and growing your audience for your podcast very, very quickly.
[00:33:29] KS: Absolutely. And that part that you said about being generous is so important because some people may be thinking, well, I wanna be exposed to their audience. Why would I share the episode from their show all over the place? I want people to listen to my podcast, but that is just not the right attitude to have at all.
[00:33:52] Kelly M: No, I think being a podcast host is such a unique place to be because people listen [00:34:00] to, I think on average eight shows a week. Like people who are avid podcast listeners, they're listening to many shows and I think we have to come at this with the mindset of abundance, with the mindset of rising tides lift all ships.
[00:34:12] This is not an either or situation. It's not like, you know, I understand if you are a dentist and you don't wanna be promoting another dentist in your town's podcast. Right? That makes sense because you are direct competitors, but most of us are not direct competitors with one another. We are compliments to what each other can offer on our shows and in our products and in our services.
[00:34:34] And building your network, I'm sure most people who are listening to this understand that building your network is probably the most important thing you can do. So if you can build those partnerships, think about every podcast that you do, that's a partnership, that is a business relationship that does not end when the recording stops.
[00:34:51] That is a business relationship that you should be nurturing, checking in with every few months. Kelly, what are you working on right now? What are you excited about? What are, what's your big [00:35:00] goal? How can I support you? You could even land yourself a residency on a great podcast by being that person who shows up to the actual interview with incredible value, shares the episode far and wide, and then continues to maintain that relationship because your episode is gonna grow as long as it's on that person's podcast.
[00:35:17] They might even feel inspired, if they really like you and they love the business partnership that you're creating, they might promote your episode again in six months, just as a thank you for all of the effort, all the energy that you're putting into the partnership. So the, the relationship does not end when the recording stops.
[00:35:34] That really is just the beginning.
[00:35:35] KS: Oh, absolutely. Being a guest should not be like a one night stand. You need to maintain that relationship because so many good things can come out of it, not just growing your own show, but yeah, business partnerships, making referrals to each other, so. Um, yeah. Having them as a guest on your show, which helps your show [00:36:00] grow.
[00:36:00] Uh, yeah, I think I said referrals. Um, it, it's just such a powerful relationship when you nurture it and the first step in that is sharing your episode with your platforms.
[00:36:12] Kelly M: Absolutely. I've had people come on my show, never heard from them again, never saw them promote the episode. That's really disappointing because that's, you know, uh, that spot could have gone to someone else that I could still be having a great business relationship with. And then there are other people who come on the show
[00:36:28] who promote the heck out of the episode, who, you know, continue to build a relationship with me. And I noticed that. I noticed that I'm gonna have that person back. Um, so thinking about not just the one potential 30 minute interview that you could have, but potentially hours and hours of not just exposure to that person's audience over the next few years, but you're gonna be the first person that that host thinks of when someone comes to the host and says, Hey, I'm organizing an event for 10,000 people,
[00:36:58] have you had any great guests on [00:37:00] your show that would be good speakers on my stage? I'm gonna think of the people that have put in the effort and really did contribute and show up. Um, so I think just not thinking exactly to your point, not thinking about a podcast interview as a one night stand, but just as the beginning of a really, hopefully long and beautiful relationship.
[00:37:18] KS: Yeah, that's great. And what would you suggest that guests do if the hosts aren't creating enough assets for them to share? Like, you know, most hosts now are creating audiograms or video grams, so you should definitely ask for those, shouldn't you, if they're creating them instead of just like sharing on Instagram as your own story?
[00:37:44] So what would you suggest that guests do?
[00:37:47] Kelly M: Definitely I think asking for the original asset so that you can have them. You can also ask for, some people, I, I have recognized or don't like to post in my brand colors. They would rather post in [00:38:00] their brand colors, send them a template link. If you use Canva, you can send them a template link so that they can customize it in their own colors.
[00:38:06] If that's gonna make them more comfortable sharing, send them, make it as easy as possible for them to share. But if you're a guest, you can also ask the host, Hey, is it okay if I have my phone recording while we're talking? Are you okay with me having a, you know, full copy of our conversation? Some people will say, no, that's okay, but it's worth asking because some people will say yes, and then you can cut up the episode the way that you want to and sh create your own assets from it.
[00:38:34] I had someone recently ask me for the full video asset, like the raw recording before it had even gone to my editor. And I said, sure, because I, you know, I don't care if it's perfectly edited, if that person is out there and create, she wants to put in the time and energy to create her own assets. And of course, you know, link people back to my show.
[00:38:55] Do that. That's awesome. So definitely ask the host permission before you record the [00:39:00] episode yourself. Um, but if they're willing, and it might be really nice for some people who don't have huge teams who maybe, maybe only create one or two pieces of content from each episode. Um, you can also say, if you send me the transcript of this episode, I'll create a blog post about it.
[00:39:14] Or I will, you know, create a Buzzfeed style article about it, or I'll send it to my newsletter. So definitely getting as much as you can from the host. You can ask them for the raw audio, make it clear that you're not asking for it so that you can approve it or not approve it. Just just so that you can create more content, more assets from it.
[00:39:33] You can ask and then you can transcribe that. You can have a conversation with the host. Let them know that you really wanna go above and beyond with promotion. They're gonna be so happy. That's gonna be a gift for them.
[00:39:44] KS: Yes. Oh my gosh, that would be amazing. No one has ever asked me for any of that. Actually. One person asked me for the video, and of course, yeah. I said, sure. And like you just said, I think it should go along with the sort of promise that you will [00:40:00] link back to the host's show and not just cut up the con, the content as if you just created it originally.
[00:40:07] Kelly M: Yes. Such a good
[00:40:09] KS: you should say, I'm gonna link back to your show.
[00:40:11] Kelly M: Such a good point. Such a good point. Yeah. Don't like crop the host out of it entirely and just brand it as your own. I've seen a lot of those, um, clips on Instagram lately actually, where I'm almost wondering, it's kind of like podcast style content where you're seeing just the guest responding to presumably a question.
[00:40:30] But I'm wondering if that came from an interview, or if it's just the person recognizing that that's a really high converting kind of content to share and so they're just almost having interviews with themselves. But every time I see one, it makes me go, huh, what is this from? And why aren't you disclosing where it came from?
[00:40:47] So I would definitely, that's a great point to keep in mind.
[00:40:51] KS: Yeah. Awesome. So what haven't I asked you about that you wanna share with
[00:40:56] listeners? I know there's so much, but you know.[00:41:00]
[00:41:00] Kelly M: I could go in so many different directions. Um, I really think that we've covered a, a lot of really good stuff. I think as a podcast host, you are in a unique position because you have a platform that can be extreme, you can leverage for even greater impact. So if you are not a podcast host and you're just an entrepreneur listening to this, I don't mean just an entrepreneur, but you are an entrepreneur without a podcast platform listening to this, um, you have a lot of leverage.
[00:41:30] You have to be a little bit creative about where that leverage comes from if you have smaller platforms. But if you are a host, you have a platform that I guarantee another host is going to be so grateful for the chance to appear on. Use that. Leverage that. Do swaps. Be generous with one another. Um, I think that's just such an underutilized strategy to grow your podcast.
[00:41:53] And just recognize like people who are listening to podcasts are looking for more podcasts to listen to. Yours could be the [00:42:00] next one that they want to binge. So recognize the leverage that you have. Show up to the table with a ton of generosity. Reciprocate if you can, if you have a platform, like a podcast or a blog that they can guest post on or an Instagram live.
[00:42:15] Be creative. Make this, not just, don't just think within the boundaries of traditional podcast episode interview style, log off. How can you make this a bigger conversation even outside of your podcast? Um, just get creative and have fun. It's going to work. Your podcast will grow. This is by far the thing that has helped me grow my podcast the most. So I, it works.
[00:42:40] Be creative with it, be generous, and it will work for you.
[00:42:43] KS: Yeah. Awesome. That is so great. Thank you so much for that. So tell us a little about your podcast, the Aligned Success Show.
[00:42:51] Kelly M: Hmm. Thank you so much for the invitation. So my podcast is a space for entrepreneurs, and I say a space rather than a podcast because I [00:43:00] like to think that we, I like to think that the podcast is just the start of the conversation and that we are continuing the conversation in other places we have. Live workshops.
[00:43:08] We have live round tables where we just get together and talk. So the podcast really is the sort of impetus place, the epicenter of those conversations that then we can start having in other places. So my listeners are primarily women entrepreneurs who want to create success from, in a way that feels good to them.
[00:43:27] So they want to focus on not just hardcore strategy. I talk a lot about strategy cuz that's my background, but also mindset. Also the neuroscience of the fears that we're experiencing. Also, the energetics of what we're experiencing and how we can show up to our businesses in more whole ways that feel really good.
[00:43:45] Not just from a brain level, not just in our bank account, but that actually feel really aligned and fulfilling. So I bring on guest experts who can contribute in all the ways that I cannot and fill in the gaps and all those topics that I don't know. Um, so I like to think of it as a hub [00:44:00] for women entrepreneurs who wanna create success on their own terms.
[00:44:03] KS: That's awesome. I do, I love your show and your most recent episode. Okay. As of this recording, so what was it, episode 70 where you're talking about lessons that you learned from the men in a mastermind and one of the things being, or not necessarily that they do, but that you've noticed that women entrepreneurs tend not to do and that's talk about money. And I loved your, your bringing that up and I found the same thing. It, it is something that we do do tend to avoid. And using those other words, like you mentioned, um, abundance and prosperity, instead of just saying, I want to make more money. And it's okay to use your podcast for that too. I mean, that's
[00:44:45] part of the mission of my podcast, this, this show, you know, is to help y'all boost your authority, expand your audience, and get more clients. And that means make more money using your podcast as a marketing tool.
[00:44:59] Kelly M: [00:45:00] Absolutely. I think women have been sort of, I don't know if it's explicitly shamed or implicitly shamed into not even wanting to use the word money. It feels unsafe to say, I want to make more money.
[00:45:13] KS: Yeah.
[00:45:13] Yeah.
[00:45:14] Kelly M: You, like, would you turn to a friend right now and say, I want to make more money? A lot of us would feel really uncomfortable doing that, and I think that's a problem.
[00:45:22] I think that's a problem. I think that's a reason why we don't make as much money as we should collectively as a population of women entrepreneurs is because we feel like we're not supposed to want that, or we feel like if we're motivated by money, then we can't possibly be motivated by the other good things, um, like making an impact and building a legacy.
[00:45:40] And I just think that that's crap. And I want to change that conversation because I, I find that men do not shy away from that conversation as much. They're much more direct. And I never wanna generalize, all women do this, all men do this. But from what I've observed in the women primarily, you know, spaces that I've been in that are filled with women versus just my [00:46:00] six weeks in this mastermind where women are in the minority,
[00:46:03] men do not shy away from ex explicitly what do you want to achieve? What is, what really is the goal that you're going for here? There are, they don't shy away from those conversations, and I think if we could just take that one page from their playbook, even if we took nothing else but just that one thing, just more directness,
[00:46:20] I think it would, we would break so many barriers. I think it's a really important conversation to have, so thank you for bringing that up.
[00:46:27] KS: Absolutely, and, and so true about being direct about what we want and being specific. So when I was at PodFest in January, men would actually ask me, you know, how can I help you? How can I support you? Who do you want me to introduce you to? That type of thing. And I didn't have a list of people I wanted to meet.
[00:46:53] I, you know, it's like, well, I wanna grow my show. I want podcast guest, I want guests on my show, and I wanna be a guest on other [00:47:00] shows. But I didn't have a specific list of, I would love to be on this person's show, or I'm looking to get this specific person as a guest on mine. And that would've helped so much.
[00:47:13] Kelly M: Absolutely. And I, I was really uncomfortable when they asked me very explicitly, give me the list of the 20 people that you wanna meet at this conference. I was like, what? What do you mean? You can't ask me that! That's private information. But then if there are specific people here that I wanna meet, I don't even, I don't even know who they are.
[00:47:32] Maybe these five people that I'm standing with actually do. And, and it turns out that they did, some of them did. And they walked me right over to that person. They were like, here you go. Why didn't you ask three days ago?
[00:47:40] KS: Yep.
[00:47:41] Kelly M: And it made me go, oh my gosh, it's because I was ashamed. It's because I was afraid to speak about an explicit desire that I had and be really direct.
[00:47:49] So it's a big lesson for me. It's a big learning for me, and I think we all becoming aware of if we're all doing this, we all need to at least just become aware that it's something that we're doing because [00:48:00] then we can help. Work each other through it and work through it together. Um, but yeah, that was a huge, a huge learning experience for me from this conference that I just went to, um, Podcast Movement Evolutions, which probably some of you listening went to as well.
[00:48:14] And if I met you there, hello. And if I didn't get to meet you there, I hope to meet you next time.
[00:48:19] KS: Yes, definitely. And so one way they can meet you sooner than that is by working with you. So would you tell us what kind of clients you work with them? You said, you know, women entrepreneurs and what you do to help them. And then of course, how can listeners get in touch if they wanna work with you?
[00:48:37] Kelly M: Absolutely. Thank you. So I have a, I have two kind of levels of support for people who are looking to build a really intentional podcast guesting strategy that actually makes you money. We're gonna say the word. We're gonna say the thing. Makes you money, wins you clients, helps you unlock bigger opportunities for speaking, bringing people into your podcast audience.
[00:48:58] So the two tiers [00:49:00] that I have to support you, one is called Hell Yes Guest. It's my course. It is under a thousand dollars, if you join during the presale period. Um, it is the most comprehensive course out there for people specifically who are looking to do podcast guesting with a lot of intention. And it's the only course that I've been able to find that is, um, hosted by a host of a podcast who really does know the ins and outs of the industry, and not just how to get booked, but how to deliver incredible episodes, how to turn cold audiences into warm raving super fans, and then hopefully into clients, and how to generate a podcast
[00:49:36] funnel, how to build a podcast funnel so that your guesting opportunities lead to R O I, whatever that R O I is for you, whether it's growing your show, bringing clients into your programs, selling your courses, or memberships. So that is a one-stop shop for all things podcast guesting, and I'm with you every single step of the way.
[00:49:53] So it's not one of those courses that you just take and you never hear from me again. I am helping you build your strategy step by step. So [00:50:00] every checkpoint, every benchmark in your, um, podcast guesting strategy as you're building it, as you are going on the shows, I'm giving you feedback. So it is the, the only podcast guesting resource you'll ever need.
[00:50:14] If you want something that is even more hands-on, high touch, done for you, we also do that too. So if you're like, I wanna, I want all the results, but I don't wanna do this myself, i, I'm not a course person, I just want it done, then we can also talk about that as well. And the best place to get in touch with me, I'm gonna send you to my Instagram, because that's where I chat with people all the time.
[00:50:32] I'm in my voice notes constantly. So if you send me a message there and let me know that you, um, heard this episode and you wanna learn more, I'd be happy to give you, um, the opportunity to start Hell Yes Guest for free, if that's something that you're thinking about. So you can take module one totally for free, and if it's a vibe and you like it and you want more, then you can always opt in to do that after.
[00:50:52] Um, but just send me a message on Instagram. DM me the word Kelly because I will know that you found me here, and I'll give you all the scoop to [00:51:00] get you started in Hell Yes Guest for free.
[00:51:01] KS: Awesome. And of course I'll put that link in the show notes, but what is your Instagram handle for people listening who want to remember it?
[00:51:09] Kelly M: Thank you. My Instagram handle is at Kelly KELLY Moser MOSSER.
[00:51:15] KS: Awesome. Nice and easy. Thank you so much for being here today. This was awesome. You shared new information about podcast guesting that I am so excited about, and that is just so valuable for my listeners. I really appreciate you for being here today.
[00:51:33] Kelly M: Thank you so much. Such an honor to be here, and I cannot wait to hear all of you on a podcast soon after listening to this episode. You're ready.
[00:51:40] KS: Yes, absolutely. Y'all take these tips and start to use them and get yourself on other shows. It is awesome. All right, and thank y'all for being here today. Please be sure to follow this show so you don't miss a single episode, and I will see you next time on Podcast Launchpad.
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